So Notes sucks eh?

Remember that cretinous “Lotus Notes sucks” page over at Uncle Dirtae? So many falsehoods and inane assertions in just one page, the guy must be proud. Indeed, a few of us chipped in to the thread after Ed mentioned it some months back, but we knew we were fighting a losing battle against the forces of sheer bloody-mindedness, incompetent IT departments and good old fashioned ignorance.

Well, it turns out that the author of that page has since had an interview with Lotus. Hmmm. “Go figure” as they say over there.


  1. I tried posting this comment on Jeff's blog, but it was rejected as "questionable content". Strangely, even editing it down to say that I was not sure why my comments were being rejected was still rejected. So, here we are, this is what I wanted to tell Jeff. I hope he's still keeping an eye on you.

    Lowell is a city where you'd definitely want to do a fair bit of research before deciding on where/whether to live. There are some nice areas; there are some not-so-nice areas. When I first worked in Westford (in the not-standard-cube-farm building), I was living in temporary housing in Lowell. A supermarket and small strip mall were the view out my window (oh, the river was in the distance, too). One night, I witnessed a (small) gang fight in the parking lot of the strip mall.

    I eventually settled on living in Boston itself. The commute was long, but traffic tended to move so it wasn't -that- bad (except on Fridays). The benefits of being in the urban area way outweighed my grumbles about the drive.

    I ended up here through BenPoole's blog… you might consider the point he's really making with his latest entry, which is that you've linked to an obsolete site criticizing Notes 4.6 (note that the original company that created the "hall of shame" doesn't even exist anymore). The work done by the people in the buildings you were in last week has substantially improved Notes, and presumably you either a) think so, or wouldn't be interviewing there or b) are a bit hypocritical.Ed Brill#
  2. Maybe he was interviewing for a job on Workplace, not Notes/Domino? ;-)Bob Balaban#
  3. Good point Bob! But if Notes’ mail management functionality is enough to send Jeff over the edge, how’s he going to cope with the fledgeling Workplace messaging component? ;-) Ben Poole#
  4. Somehow, with the advent of the online community, many of us have forgotten that even though we are typing our thoughts we are still communicating with others.

    Sure, your blog is your own and you can curse and gripe as much as you deem necessary, but why can't we remember to discuss issues with politeness, fairness, and respect?

    Every day, I pester my son with the notion of treating others just like how he would like to be treated, and that there are different ways to approach situations.

    Last week, instead of telling me I was being a pain in the back side, he calmed me down by telling me I was being "Mister Grumpy-pants." He's six. I laughed and morphed back into "Daddy Nice-guy."

    My synaptic misfires occur just as often as the next bloke, and I have many dislikes too. I'm sure there are better ways to communicate these feelings.

    Group hug?

    Dr. JoeJoseph Pollone#
  5. I work at a site that we have just migrated from Exchange to Notes 6.5 and we are still copping the flack from it.
    The most frequent comment we get is "Outlook doesn't do it that way". We find it quite pathetic that a group of IT professionals can't adapt to new software or even look beyond the mail component to the extra functionality they can get.
    The worse thing is that they have immediately gone back to the Outlook security blanket using the Outlook connector, which has other unfortunate side effects such as database corruption and strange connections to other people's database that they don't have access to.
    I wish I could find out any information on these bizarre connector problems, but haven't found a thing yet. Anyone have any ideas?
    Brad Stammers#
  6. I was working at IBM before the 911 event. I watched as IBM bought Lotus and began to utilize it. IBM was a mainframe environment and when they took over Notes they gave the management to managers that were only mainframe high level programming people. I watched these guys complain and try their hardest to mainframize Notes. Notes is a more freeform way to work/share data. The mainframe way hardcodes everything and stifles the freeform aspect. I saw so many project go and write the whole environment/project from scratch which ended up making projects hardcoded, unchangeable and basically get lost because when the writer left the company there was no one left to change it. They ended up with something that took 14 time longer to create than it would have taken in Notes and less easy to ever change. So they rewrtie alot of project over and over again because it doesnt fit as thing evolve. Notes is a hell of alot more dynamic than anything else out there. Much easier to use than having everyone know C++ or Java. Its not for everything but its perfect for what it does do. In my contracting career doing Notes/Domino, I followed a trail of really bad designs improperly used Notes environments. Most of the people I have found that say they hate Notes is because they've never seen it used properly. Once I redeveloped these apps they companies loved Notes. The only thing I encountered after the redevelopment was uncomfortable managers that didnt like Notes because it makes you clean up your data and exposes where departments fudge. You cant hide the paper trail when used properly.
    my two bits…. I'm an advocate because I've seen how it works. Nothing can touch it.Terry Henderson#
  7. My company recently switched from Exchange/Outlook to Notes 6.5. I read all the pros and cons at a number of sites trying to find why anyone would really like Notes, but I'm just not convinced by what I read. Like the weather in the Midwest, Notes changes its behavior every half-hour, or so, and seems to work differently. Deleting emails leaves them in your inbox with a red X today, makes them go to the trash bin tomorrow. Deleting from within an email worked yesterday, but you get a message saying you can't delete a NotesDocument from within an instantiation of a NotesUIDocument today, whatever that means. I have been writing S/W for 25 years and I can't believe this is release 6.5! The UI is just the worst. Being different from every other Windows program isn't a good thing - it's a pain in the butt. Honestly, the UI looks like something put together by a Junior College class rather than a world class organization.

    Perhaps there are any number of reasons why an IT group would want to switch to Notes, but I have to agree with the comment I read that says the sacrifice most users (who want an efficient email client) have to make for the few benefits isn't worth it. It is a productivity killer. Try using it through a VPN… sending a 2 line email can take minutes! Even though our company switched, they're already looking for a replacement for the Workgroup features so they can switch back to Exchange.

    I'm sure Outlook and Exchange will improve as time goes on. With all of the fundamental problems I see in release 6.5, I'm guessing that Notes never will.Pat Kelly#
  8. Well good for you. Seems like a waste of a life to me though.Ben Poole#
  9. whoever's developing lotus notes should tack gary's link to their monitor and from time to time open the page and review what's there: a) he has a couple of good points, b) one gets insight into the mind of a stalker, and c) chuckle at a great deal of foolishness.

    i read thru the comments at Uncle Dirtae's "Lotus Notes sucks" page too. i'm not a developer, but am president of a small company (about 80 people) that has been using notes now for almost 7 years. it's been one of the best investments i've made. the impression i get from Dirtae's commentators, bar none, is that they all were blessed with superior intellects in their IS/IT departments.

    i have used the pc since 1982, gone thru countless iterations of windows, even more dead software leads, and discovered every last single piece of software and hardware out there requires that you use your brain.

    lotus notes has given me collaborative software, CRM software, news aggregation (before there was RSS)--in fact that's the business i'm in, client contract management databases, an HR database, dedicated Webs for my clients ("extranets"), besides stable email and more. why? because i took the time to hire people that were more than cretins to manage the product…. and that includes both people who understand notes AND people who understand hardware/networking configurations.

    my only worry has been, will IBM kill it (like microsoft more or less has done with foxpro), which seems not to be the case now. good for them.

    with more savvy people putting together things like blogsphere and, yes, the Wiki, i think notes has a great future. i for one am glad.

  10. whoever's developing lotus notes should tack gary's link to their monitor and from time to time open the page and review what's there: a) he has a couple of good points…

    That’s true actually, there are some good points in those pages. It’s just a shame they’re all wrapped up in a lot of very bad ones!Ben Poole#
  11. oh yeah, one other thing. if your company doesn't have a help desk with some smart people there, you deserve every last problem you encounter--whether it's notes-related or windows-related: you know, like telling the difference between a .pif file and a .gif file, duh?

    as for VPN, ours works flawlessly and FAST. it gets back to people who know what they're doing in your support department…david#
  12. I must admit, the mail client, even in ND6, is still a bit poor.

    We all know that Notes is not just for mail, but if they're going to keep selling that as a benefit I think it could be improved. Then again, with the increasing use of browsers for Domino apps maybe it's too late to correct this….Lee#
  13. Re: 9 - Have you not tried to take a local replica, I hve used Notes and Outlook and Notes is much better over VPN, and modem. Just use the replication features..neil#
  14. Neil, exactly. I think it’s clear from the comments made by Pat re deleting documents & VPN access that he / she is not familiar with how Notes works at all. They even think that there’s some kind of roadmap for Exchange and Outlook, judging by their final comment. :-D Ben Poole#

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