Notes and Domino obsolete?

Uh oh. I can hear the gnashing of teeth from here.

In the future, if nothing else changes, I personally believe IBM Lotus Notes and Domino will be irrelevant at best, assuming that the products continue to exist. In my view, the most likely scenario is that IBM Lotus will merely try to hang on to its shrinking customer base through a never ending stream of minor point releases that change virtually nothing but that may obscure for a time the fact that the solution is no longer economically viable…

My advice to Lotus Notes and Domino professionals is to start learning new skills. Technology changes. Get used to it.

Read more: DominoPower: Why Ron Herardian thinks Notes and Domino are obsolete.


  1. It's Ron Herardian. There's almost no point in reading. This is the guy who just announced his big Notes to Sun migration tool, talk about timely.

    Every comment he's made on my blog, in the press, and in the Partner Forum in the last few years has been of this gloom and doom type. There's a good reason that he is not an active part of the Lotus community, and as an outsider, he just sounds sour.

    Hate to make it personal, but there's no other way to analyze this.Ed Brill#
  2. Well, ok, but it IS written by Ron Herardian. 'nuff said…Rob McDonagh#
  3. Aw, Ed beat me to it…Rob McDonagh#
  4. Ok, now that I actually read the 'article' -- gee, is it any surprise that on the second page, he's actively touting Sun?!!?!? Without disclosing his personal interest? That seems icky to me.

    I love how he says that he declared file sharing mail dead in 1995. That's funny, I was at cc:Mail Interchange 1993 where Lotus announced LCS 4.0, a client/server architecture based on Notes 4.0. They made it pretty clear then that file sharing e-mail was dead, and it just took another four years for the market transition to happen (on both the MS Exchange side, released in 1996 and the Notes side as well).

    Surprised DominoPower ran this.Ed Brill#
  5. Surprised DominoPower ran this.

    Really? DominoPower is a periodical like any other: needs to pull those readers in I suppose!

    I must confess, I‘d not heard of either Ron or GSS before reading this article. I think there are some valid comments re SaaS, but that’s about it.Ben Poole#
  6. Notes and Domino are obsolete… again? Better yet, Sun's products aren't. I also didn't realize that ND8 was a minor point release. So much for this Herardian chimp having ANY credibility.Ed Maloney#
  7. I pointed out this same conflict problem previously when there was an article and a contradictory ad showing off migration tools away from Domino placed in the same issue. I was told that the advertising doesn't know the content. Which is bull. They build advertising against the published content to better get the right people and advertisers together.Chris Miller#
  8. Agreed about the author. However, I was pushing for an ISP like Domino server since 98. One that could scale to millions of users.
    Indeed that would return Lotus to old glory, if we can do it.
    Is DB2 the road to it? unlikely. Was workplace? Perhaps.
    Just my thoughts, and some countries inititaives that failed to see the light of day.Keith Brooks#
  9. @8 “Workplace” and “scale” never went together as far as I could tell ;-) Ben Poole#
  10. It is easy when you don't even have to attack the author, and you can stick to clear facts that he is wrong about.

    "the most likely scenario is that IBM Lotus will merely try to hang on to its shrinking customer base through a never ending stream of minor point releases that change virtually nothing"

    It is easy to point out how that is incorrect by showing product plans for the Notes client, iNotes, Traveller, Domino Admin, Domino App Dev, Notes App Dev, Foundations, etc.

    He's allow to have an opinion, but his facts are simply wrong.Alan Lepofsky#
  11. Mr. Herardian makes a number of questionable statements in this piece, which isn't surprising given that even the premise for some of these statements if flawed:

    Ron says: "There are many reasons why Lotus Notes and Domino is -- or once was -- an excellent choice (security for example) but the bottom line business issue is cost."

    No, the bottom line business issue is cost/BENEFIT. If everyone was selling apples of the exact same size and quality, THEN cost is the only issue. However, the value proposition of Notes/Domino is certainly not identical to what MS or Sun or anyone else are offering, so now you have to compare apples to oranges and THAT is necessarily more complicated.

    Kevin Pettitt#
  12. DominoPower should be doing more to get the facts rather than allowing one person to rant and rave. Where is the "real" journalism here? Where is the fact checking? Where is the review with an IBM rep? Or is this just a "paid for" advertisement? Just bad journalism by DominoPower. John Turnbow#
  13. I continue to see Notes/Domino application which would just not produce anywhere near the same value on any other platform. Certainly I see Notes apps which could be done on anything else too, so it is down to picking the right tool for the job.

    The stuff that Notes is excellent at doing just cannot be done on anything else. Don't mention Sharepoint please!!!

    Bad form of Herardian to mask his conflict. Mine is clear. We make solutions for Notes.

    John de Giorgio#
  14. Where is the "real" journalism here?

    And there you have it, in a nutshell. There is very little “real” journalism out there nowadays, especially in the world of IT. As John de Giorgio points out, Herardian does his article—and of course, his readers—a gross injustice in concealing his bias.

    With regards DominoPower, I can only assume they’re “doing a searchdomino” in publishing this particular piece, and given past performance I imagine (hope!) that this is a one-off, because the “disclaimer” at the beginning is pretty weak.Ben Poole#
  15. It is an opinion, the editorial says it loud and clear. I understand that everyone that does not praise to the Lotus Lord is stupid but why is it so hard to accept that there are people that have a different view?
    It is good to have such stories from time to time because you will find them in the real world too. Everyone has been invited to discuss and respond. They sometimes are the background of a migration (not to Sun though) and it is good to read the arguments and respond accordingly. It is good to be prepared because there are millions of Ron Herardians out there.
    I personally find it a pity that the Domino community is so hostile against other opinions and technologies.Henning Heinz#
  16. @11 -- There's a discussion going on about this on the LNOTES-L mailing list. (Ron instigated it by posting a link) I just made the exact same point. Here's a link to the thread: Schwartz#
  17. @16 thanks for that link, Rich! You've documented your thoughts there well, too bad the other side has not. I contributed something, I think…we'll see if it shows up.

    Meanwhile, I'll blog this whole thing later today… though Ron's 15 minutes for the year are probably already expired.Ed Brill#
  18. Hasn't shown up yet, Ed, but I think memberships in that particular Yahoo Group are manually approved.Richard Schwartz#
  19. 1. Why has DominoPower been incredibly Anti-Domino over the last year or so?

    2. Ron Herardian - …yawn… and his company has just released a bunch of migration tools… zzzzzzzzzGavin Bollard#
  20. Ok, I take back what I said and apologize. Following the discussion on Yahoo this really seems nothing but a dump approach for a sell. I enjoyed the comments made by Richard.Henning Heinz#
  21. @20 -- Thanks, Henning. It is readily apparent now from the latest turn of events in the discussion that Ron is motivated not just by a desire to sell his Sun-oriented migration services, but also by resentment toward IBM in general, and a specific personal antagonism toward Ed Brill. Richard Schwartz#
  22. @21 agreed, that comes through loud and clear. Pretty sad for a grown man.Ben Poole#
  23. @21 and the weird part is, I am not sure which of those motivations drove the authoring of the DominoPower article.

    Either way, it's the second time in two weeks (ping me offline if you want to know about the other one) and I'm thinking I need a bit of a break.Ed Brill#
  24. Oiy. David from DominoPower here. We're still deciding how to address this issue, but will probably respond more formally in Thursday's issue. For the record, while we were quite aware of the content of the article, we had no idea that Mr. Herardian would engage in a barrage of community-baiting and very poorly considered PR, all using DominoPower as a supporting character. Needless to say, we are not amused. For those curious about why we ran it, I'm sure we'll discuss that more as well. But rest assured, DominoPower is very fully convinced the Lotus market is thriving.David Gewirtz#
  25. Ben,
    Scale? No one will ever know.
    Bu the idea behind it was a valid one, to assist Domino in scaling via some other methodology.
    I liken it to the alternative-fuel people, most of it is hogwash but someone will find it.Keith Brooks#
  26. Ron's done some writing and seems to live in the "active" and "dynamic" world of cc:Mail migration, as his site quotes a migration tool for CCMail. Ho hum… But he has in the past recommended domino over exchange, less than a year ago in fact.

    But it's written as a back-handed compliment. If you read through it, it's evident Ron doesn't get out much, reads newspapers or surf the net n stuff. Does he live in a remote cabin or something ? Either way, once someone starts writing such un-informed tripe it's just white-noise and should receive no further attention…

  27. If Ron predicted the death of LAN based products in 1995, and here we find ourselves 3 days later, 27 comments deep and 13 years of continued growth with this DEAD technology.

    I think Ron needs to reconsider his position.

    Domino is back…. or maybe it was never dead at all.

    Don Strawsburg#
  28. If anything Domino Power is getting alot of press by letting someone have such an ill informed opinion.

    Good marketing if you ask me.David Killingsworth#
  29. @27 - Well see, Ron has a different opinion of what "LAN based" means.

    He's differentiating that with client/server, which is where he lumps in Notes/Domino and Exchange/Outlook. In the scope of our discussion, Lotus cc:Mail is the product example he's talking about.

    I think many people would look at LAN based as contrasted with meaning not on the local network, e.g. a hosted SaaS solution.

    Ron doesn't see it that way and therefore claims he was correct originally in being the one to proclaim that LAN based mail was dead in 1995, replaced with client/server.

    Likewise he also believes Domino is dead because in his view IBM has no SaaS strategy for Domino, only WebSphere.Kevin Mort#

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